Thank you, Rupert. Here I was naively thinking that I’d seen or heard all of these trialogues but I don’t recall this one — what a gift! Going to your website now for the other 57.
Muslims and the Quran in over 1400 years had agreed with the same interpretation of the story of Cain and Abel. I am sharing an arabic video from youtube for a speaker living in Canada who came up with exactly the opposite explanation. You need someone or a tool to help you, as the standard youtube settings don't enable automated subtitles.
1-The names Cain, Abel were never mentioned in Quran not even if one was a farmer and the other a cattle herder. Only fact was that they were offering a sacrifice, not even known if to the same God, or each to his own God.
2-The one whose sacrifice was "accepted" (aka Abel) thought that God was on his side hence he won and decided to kill the "bad" guy.
3-The bad guy (aka Cain) knew that he was bad, but not as bad as to become a killer and he literally spoke the words to Abel as mentioned in the Quranic verse "If you extend your hand to kill me, I won't do the same so as you will bear your sin and my sin.
So in the end it wasn't a killing because one was jealous of the other, but because one was thinking that God was on his side.
“To explain the universal distribution of this as part of traditional human thinking requires at some stage in the past there to have been to an awareness of this other realm of consciousness. Now, this is not incompatible with psilocybin or any other drug hypothesis, because those might have kick-started this connection with another realm of consciousness.
But if we assume that today all over the world, shamanic cultures and all other cultures have the sense of other levels and other kinds of conscious entities beyond the human level, some in animal forms and some in forms way beyond that, we have to assume that at some stage in the past, there was a linking with these other realms of consciousness, whatever they are.
Not just metaphors, not just archetypes in the collective mind, but forms of consciousness that might well be, and I think actually are, out there.”
.
THE COSMIC SERPENT explores the idea that DNA and the knowledge of indigenous cultures may be more intertwined than we think. The author presents some bold ideas, blending biology, anthropology, and mythology, which can feel a bit out there at times, but it's thought-provoking nonetheless.
Narby's premise is that hallucinogenic drugs used by shaman in the Western Amazon actually give them access to medicinal information through knowledge coded in DNA.
In a first-person narrative of scientific discovery that opens new perspectives on biology, anthropology, and the limits of rationalism.
The Cosmic Serpent symbolizes ancient wisdom, paradox, wholeness, and creation. The Cosmic Serpent carries with it the story of creation, universal wisdom, and truth.
Find treatment of the implications, full of modern relevance, in Tess Wilkinson-Ryan's 2023 book Fool Proof: How Fear of Playing the Sucker Shapes Our Selves and the Social Order―and What We Can Do About It. While not great in terms of solving the problems created, great analysis.
Fascinating. Contemporary shamans and others experimenting with psilocybin and other mind-altering drugs seem able to access new realms of consciousness. I believe these higher-level frequencies may also be accessed through other practices--meditation, hypnosis, prayer, and sound toning among them.
Based on your theory, Rupert, do you believe it is possible that humans are on the precipice of a new branch in our evolution--comparable, perhaps, to whatever happened 50,000 years ago--unleashing new capabilities and accessing higher awareness and wisdom, perhaps as a modulation to that of the "spirits, angels or gods" you allude to here? And what would it take to get there?
I need to read this book! Such an amazing idea. (It makes me want to start a Consciousness Book Club! I think I might just. I need these kinds of exchanges in my life.) This was fascinating!
This is a very interesting conversation.but one tiny thing caught my attention. In the story of Cain and Abel in the Old Testament — the roles of the two brothers have been reversed from the original telling. I do not bring this question as a believer challenging your theory, but as an honest question. Abel was the Farmer and Cain was the hunter. Abel’s gift was accepted and Cain’s meat offering was rejected — at least in translated form. This story has also been cited as a reflection of the rise of cites and agriculture over the older hunter/gatherer culture. Do you propose a newer translation or was your reversal of sacrifices a mis-statement? Abel’s vegetable offering was accepted and Cain’s meat offering was rejected. Coincidently, the myth states that “the mark of Cain” was associated with murderers. Please explain. Thank you.
Thank you for your interest. I am not sure what you would like to hear (?). In re-visiting my comment, I don’t see much butt a typo (that has been corrected). I would be happy to add comment, but please indicate what you are questioning.
Always love hearing your views on this journey we call 'life' Rupert. Thank you so much for this one. I've always had a willing and open mind to change whenever the pendulum swings in a direction that defies tradition with evidence and logic to fit. I will be the first one to throw away what seemed to be ~ with a new sense of reasoning. Onward we go m'luv, onward we go ... brilliant.
This explains the after effects of Cain’s choices. In the Genesis version, After Cain slew Abel, the deity placed a mark on his forehead indicating that he was a murderer. Then Cain left (Eden?) and went to “another city” where “he took a wife” and became the ancestor of all those who “manufactured” and “created” things. Putting these two versions together creates a broad palate of behaviors: those who farmed (like Abel) and those who “built cities and the things in them”. Looking at it as pure literature/oral history, it fits right in with those who developed the sciences of society and anthropology. So the next question becomes: what is fantasy and what if history? Please do not misunderstand my suggestion. I am looking at the construction of “text” and “history,” NOT trying to prove whether we are working with “the revealed word of God” or a myth cycle. Any observations about this proposal?
We outsmart everything, we endear all animals to our wants and desires and settle them with provisions in food to live alongside nature from observation.
Obviously survival of the fittest didn’t see the mistake as ‘fittedness’ like good teeth, we fit in, camouflage, play, escalate provisions while colonials believe we are separate of a wilderness that we invented for ourselves and to use up oxygen quicker than it can be delivered because of linear thinking.
Thank you, Rupert. Here I was naively thinking that I’d seen or heard all of these trialogues but I don’t recall this one — what a gift! Going to your website now for the other 57.
Muslims and the Quran in over 1400 years had agreed with the same interpretation of the story of Cain and Abel. I am sharing an arabic video from youtube for a speaker living in Canada who came up with exactly the opposite explanation. You need someone or a tool to help you, as the standard youtube settings don't enable automated subtitles.
1-The names Cain, Abel were never mentioned in Quran not even if one was a farmer and the other a cattle herder. Only fact was that they were offering a sacrifice, not even known if to the same God, or each to his own God.
2-The one whose sacrifice was "accepted" (aka Abel) thought that God was on his side hence he won and decided to kill the "bad" guy.
3-The bad guy (aka Cain) knew that he was bad, but not as bad as to become a killer and he literally spoke the words to Abel as mentioned in the Quranic verse "If you extend your hand to kill me, I won't do the same so as you will bear your sin and my sin.
So in the end it wasn't a killing because one was jealous of the other, but because one was thinking that God was on his side.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xC5fJPPNug
SHELDRAKE:
“To explain the universal distribution of this as part of traditional human thinking requires at some stage in the past there to have been to an awareness of this other realm of consciousness. Now, this is not incompatible with psilocybin or any other drug hypothesis, because those might have kick-started this connection with another realm of consciousness.
But if we assume that today all over the world, shamanic cultures and all other cultures have the sense of other levels and other kinds of conscious entities beyond the human level, some in animal forms and some in forms way beyond that, we have to assume that at some stage in the past, there was a linking with these other realms of consciousness, whatever they are.
Not just metaphors, not just archetypes in the collective mind, but forms of consciousness that might well be, and I think actually are, out there.”
.
THE COSMIC SERPENT explores the idea that DNA and the knowledge of indigenous cultures may be more intertwined than we think. The author presents some bold ideas, blending biology, anthropology, and mythology, which can feel a bit out there at times, but it's thought-provoking nonetheless.
Narby's premise is that hallucinogenic drugs used by shaman in the Western Amazon actually give them access to medicinal information through knowledge coded in DNA.
In a first-person narrative of scientific discovery that opens new perspectives on biology, anthropology, and the limits of rationalism.
The Cosmic Serpent symbolizes ancient wisdom, paradox, wholeness, and creation. The Cosmic Serpent carries with it the story of creation, universal wisdom, and truth.
Find treatment of the implications, full of modern relevance, in Tess Wilkinson-Ryan's 2023 book Fool Proof: How Fear of Playing the Sucker Shapes Our Selves and the Social Order―and What We Can Do About It. While not great in terms of solving the problems created, great analysis.
Fascinating. Contemporary shamans and others experimenting with psilocybin and other mind-altering drugs seem able to access new realms of consciousness. I believe these higher-level frequencies may also be accessed through other practices--meditation, hypnosis, prayer, and sound toning among them.
Based on your theory, Rupert, do you believe it is possible that humans are on the precipice of a new branch in our evolution--comparable, perhaps, to whatever happened 50,000 years ago--unleashing new capabilities and accessing higher awareness and wisdom, perhaps as a modulation to that of the "spirits, angels or gods" you allude to here? And what would it take to get there?
Curious to learn more about this.
I am terrifically excited to listen to the rest of the conversations on your website. Thank you so much for sharing all this, made my whole month <3
So beautiful, thanks for sharing ♡ im also going for the other 57 ;)
I need to read this book! Such an amazing idea. (It makes me want to start a Consciousness Book Club! I think I might just. I need these kinds of exchanges in my life.) This was fascinating!
This is a very interesting conversation.but one tiny thing caught my attention. In the story of Cain and Abel in the Old Testament — the roles of the two brothers have been reversed from the original telling. I do not bring this question as a believer challenging your theory, but as an honest question. Abel was the Farmer and Cain was the hunter. Abel’s gift was accepted and Cain’s meat offering was rejected — at least in translated form. This story has also been cited as a reflection of the rise of cites and agriculture over the older hunter/gatherer culture. Do you propose a newer translation or was your reversal of sacrifices a mis-statement? Abel’s vegetable offering was accepted and Cain’s meat offering was rejected. Coincidently, the myth states that “the mark of Cain” was associated with murderers. Please explain. Thank you.
This occurred to me too! I’d like to hear more.
Thank you for your interest. I am not sure what you would like to hear (?). In re-visiting my comment, I don’t see much butt a typo (that has been corrected). I would be happy to add comment, but please indicate what you are questioning.
Thank you!!!!
Just a moment ago I was thinking about these talks and how Terrence McKenna called you "Rup". I opened my ipad and . . .
Thanks Rupert.
Always love hearing your views on this journey we call 'life' Rupert. Thank you so much for this one. I've always had a willing and open mind to change whenever the pendulum swings in a direction that defies tradition with evidence and logic to fit. I will be the first one to throw away what seemed to be ~ with a new sense of reasoning. Onward we go m'luv, onward we go ... brilliant.
This explains the after effects of Cain’s choices. In the Genesis version, After Cain slew Abel, the deity placed a mark on his forehead indicating that he was a murderer. Then Cain left (Eden?) and went to “another city” where “he took a wife” and became the ancestor of all those who “manufactured” and “created” things. Putting these two versions together creates a broad palate of behaviors: those who farmed (like Abel) and those who “built cities and the things in them”. Looking at it as pure literature/oral history, it fits right in with those who developed the sciences of society and anthropology. So the next question becomes: what is fantasy and what if history? Please do not misunderstand my suggestion. I am looking at the construction of “text” and “history,” NOT trying to prove whether we are working with “the revealed word of God” or a myth cycle. Any observations about this proposal?
In a way , we are being forced to explore the things we must do to feed and protect ourselves and our love ones
Gosh, how narrow minded.
We outsmart everything, we endear all animals to our wants and desires and settle them with provisions in food to live alongside nature from observation.
Obviously survival of the fittest didn’t see the mistake as ‘fittedness’ like good teeth, we fit in, camouflage, play, escalate provisions while colonials believe we are separate of a wilderness that we invented for ourselves and to use up oxygen quicker than it can be delivered because of linear thinking.